How Psycho-Astrology Can Help Us Heal – Ep#054 The Chiron Effect With Lisa Tahir, LCSW

On this podcast, we’ve explored so many life changing tools and systems that cultivate inner transformation. In this episode, we add to the list the field of Psycho- Astrology, a term trademarked by my guest Lisa Tahir, a Licensed Clinical Social Worker who is the author of a fascinating new book, The Chiron Effect: Healing Our Core Wounds through Astrology, Empathy and Self-Forgiveness.

Through a process called the Chiron Effect, Lisa gives us insight into how our unconscious patterns and unwanted habits stem from specific core vulnerabilities.

Lisa has a private practice in Louisiana and California. Her 20 years of experience in the field of intuitive psychotherapy includes a variety of holistic therapies including , energy healing, meditation and EMDR.

She is also the host of a highly successful podcast, All Things Therapy where she interviews innovators in the fields of psychology, spirituality, transformation as well as the arts, business, and entertainment industries.

You can learn about Lisa’s work and services at and get her book wherever books are sold.

Get your birth chart and Chiron sign here:

**Mention the “SOUL SCIENCE NUTRITION PODCAST” and receive 50% off a single session of Intuitive Psychotherapy with Lisa:

Podcast Transcript

Lisa Tahir (1s):
Welcome to the Soul Science Nutrition Podcast, where you’ll discover that when it comes to your health, you’re so much more powerful than you’ve been led to believe. And now your host, she’s a holistic nutrition and lifestyle coach, chef author, and Yogi, Christine Okezie.

Christine Okezie (23s):
Hello, and welcome to the Soul Science Nutrition Podcast. I’m Christine Okezie. Thanks so much for listening today. So feeling empowered in our health and life is dependent on the degree to which we know ourselves, how much we can observe and understand our habits, tendencies and patterns gives us the ability to make positive changes in our life. From a place of clarity on this podcast, we have explored so many life changing tools and systems that cultivate this inner transformation. And today we add to the list, the field of psycho astrology, a term trademarked by my guest, Lisa, to hear a licensed clinical social worker who is the author of a fascinating new book, the Kyron effect healing our core wounds through astrology empathy, and self-forgiveness Lisa’s work shows us how the framework of astrology can be a powerful self discovery tool, helping us to expand our awareness and address the roots of our individual healing needs by exploring life themes, archetypes, inner wounding, and shadow aspects of our self-concept psycho astrology gives us a beautiful opportunity to take compassionate responsibility for our lives.

Christine Okezie (1m 40s):
Lisa shows us how the mythological story of Chiron the archetype of the wounded healer represents an invitation to journey inward and bring greater understanding healing and power to our life. Through a process called the Chiron effect. Lisa gives us insight into how our unconscious patterns stem from specific core wounds and then shares practices that we can use to heal ourselves through the energy of empathy and forgiveness. So Lisa has a private practice in Louisiana and California. Her 20 years of experience in the field of intuitive psychotherapy includes a variety of holistic therapies, including energy healing, meditation, and EMDR.

Christine Okezie (2m 27s):
She is also the host of a highly successful podcast. All things therapy, where she interviews leaders and innovators in the fields of psychology spirituality transformation, as well as the arts and business industry, you can learn all about Lisa and her works or and get her book, wherever books are sold. I can’t wait for you to listen in on our conversation. And if you do like the show, I’d be grateful if you’d leave a rating and review. And if you haven’t hit that subscribe button, please do so it helps me keep the podcast growing. Thanks so much and enjoy the show highly.

Christine Okezie (3m 7s):
So welcome to the podcast. So good to have you here today.

Lisa Tahir (3m 10s):
Hi Christine. Thank you so much for having me on the soul science nutrition podcast.

Christine Okezie (3m 17s):
I can’t wait to dive into your fascinating and empowering material here. What led you to working with this fascinating combination of psychology and astray?

Lisa Tahir (3m 27s):
Sure. Christine and I want our listeners to know that you don’t have to know anything about astrology to approach this material and this paradigm for healing through empathy. And self-forgiveness that astrology is a diagnostic tool that I found to be something unique. As far as the placement of Kyron, C H I R O N. And your astrological birth chart, just like, you know, your sun sign, like you might be a Gemini or Libra or Scorpio. Kyron is in one of those signs and what it identifies and illuminates for you is the main area of vulnerability that you have.

Lisa Tahir (4m 8s):
I call it the area of core wounding, where we tend to edit or hide those parts of ourselves. We could even feel ashamed about them, and it may be things like feeling low self-esteem though you’re outwardly really successful. And people might never know that you struggle with a sense of value and worth, or that you have issues with maintaining your personal health routines and managing those types of things, though. You’re really good at helping others get to where they need to be. So it’s almost like this disconnect between who you are in the world and how you may feel privately to yourself. And that’s what Kyron reveals to you.

Lisa Tahir (4m 49s):
And I know it’s so powerful to have this information because then we can really start to focus our efforts of affirmation and where we need to support ourselves and get resources and, you know, in a supportive and coaching way versus the self criticism that you may have been judging yourself with.

Christine Okezie (5m 8s):
Oh my gosh. Yes. And can you give us some examples of the core wounding? So folks have an idea of what those kind of subconscious patterns are,

Lisa Tahir (5m 17s):
You know, so Kyron and Aquarius, and you do you get this information by an interactive website and chart in my book by your date of birth, your place of birth. And if you have it, your time of birth, the time of birth isn’t necessary, it just gives an additional placement of the house that your Kyron is in, which speaks to the area where this core wounding and vulnerability manifests. So I’m going to use safe. Your Kyron is an Aquarius. You might really love community and friendships, but there’s a disconnect. There’s a core wounding in your sense of connection to community and in community and the greater sense to humanitarian causes that are really important to you, that you might find it hard to fit in that sense of like, I never, I hear a lot of clients say, like, I’ve never felt like I fit in and it really relates to the sense of wanting belonging, but not sure how to create it.

Lisa Tahir (6m 13s):
So that’s an example of a core wounding and how it affects us. And it’s so helpful to know that,

Christine Okezie (6m 19s):
Yes. So it sheds light, maybe why we feel certain ways or why we show up in the world or have our tendencies in, in these areas.

Lisa Tahir (6m 29s):

Christine Okezie (6m 30s):
How did it find you? Like, you know, what, what found you to kind of use this as a really powerful diagnostic tool in the work that you do?

Lisa Tahir (6m 39s):
You know, that I love the way you just phrase that Christine, because I feel like this information found me so to speak. I’ve been a therapist for over 20 years and I’ve also been a client in therapy to understand my own patterns and heal from my own traumas in childhood. And I felt like I came to a place four years ago where I still would be really triggered by certain people and experiences and feel depressed and get all upset, you know, as if I had never gone to therapy for so long. And I just started to feel really frustrated with the process of what is beyond our wounding, what is beyond telling the old story of how it was.

Lisa Tahir (7m 19s):
And I started to really want to reach into the future, like the person I want to be and see myself being feels okay, of course, we’re always going to have triggers. We’re going to feel all kinds of emotions, but that it doesn’t last as long, or we’re able to be like, Oh, that’s that old story that I don’t have to go down that rabbit hole again, look at who I am today. And so I really sought through meditation, Christine, like universe, like what is next for me and for my clients. So I could continue to lead them down the path of healing and being happier, not just self-aware because you can be self-aware and still in pain. So it’s self-aware and happy.

Lisa Tahir (7m 59s):
And I don’t think I’ve ever said it that way before, until you asked this question and that’s where Kyron came up in meditation and I kept feeling prodded for a few weeks. Like, don’t just, you know, I kind of dismissed it like, okay, universe. I learned about Kyron grad school, Carl Yoon, archetype of the wounded healer, blah, blah, blah. But it kept coming up until I really started to research and see that this is a set of patterns and it has to do with the people, places and things that we habituate and frequent and our daily routine based upon what we believe to be true for ourselves. And I felt like that was key to change what we believe to be true for ourselves.

Christine Okezie (8m 40s):
Mm, wow. Thank you. That is so powerful. Yeah, it is. It is. It’s one thing to identify our story. I, you know, our origins and, but then we get kind of stuck there, you know, and actually be, just keep telling that story and it becomes even deeply grooved in the psyche. And so combining this with, I love the fact that, okay, let’s use awareness and where does it still our superpower, right. We use this work, but then what, you know, what is the embodiment and what is the aspiration right. To change it. And that’s really, again, that forward thinking. And that is the work that you, that you, that the practices are so empowering, you know, they’re really, you know, all about self, self sovereignty and self, you know, regaining our kind of self agency in our lives.

Christine Okezie (9m 29s):
And that’s so beautiful. So tell us more about the house placement. So we understand the manifestation and we, we find out our sun sign, right. So for example, let’s just use me, right. I’m kind of around in areas based on my birth time and date of birth date. Right. And then I’m in the 11th house, which basically is how it shows up in my life, how wounds might manifest in my life. Right?

Lisa Tahir (9m 57s):
Yes, exactly. So

Christine Okezie (9m 59s):
Let’s dive into that.

Lisa Tahir (10m 1s):
So this core wounding and your sense of value and worth, which is the placement of Kyron and Aries has to do with no matter how much you might have performed, done well received professional success, and even a lot of affirmation from others, like others really seeing you in your power is wonderful. Like people really love you genuinely, but somehow there’s like a sense within your own self. Like, Ugh, like, am I enough? Or, okay, thanks. But like, I have to keep performing, I have to keep almost to the point of exhaustion possibly at times where you feel depleted, like your love tank, isn’t full.

Lisa Tahir (10m 42s):
And it’s like a disconnect, like I mentioned earlier between how you’re perceived and how you feel about yourself and with the 11th house, speaking to groups, friends, and associations, and even humanitarian causes that that’s the area that it can show up, you know, and your groups and your friends with, you know, causes important to you. And I’m wondering how this is sitting with you with them.

Christine Okezie (11m 6s):
Yes, yes. So, you know, absolutely. And you know, and it’s, it can be very subtle. So I’ve, you know, like yourself, I’ve kind of been in the space of, of inner work for quite some time. And what came up as I, you know, looked at the core wounding around value and worth, was that still my Achilles heel, you know, that’s still, you know, I’ve done a lot of work that it doesn’t, you know, the behaviors and the, the habits don’t, don’t derail me or don’t create a lot of imbalance in my life anymore. Right. But nonetheless, the stumbling blocks that I do have, or the, when I’m having friction in my life, I know it’s, it’s right there.

Christine Okezie (11m 49s):
That’s like my, my, my core vulnerability, if you will, you know, and the mind will tend to do that. So, and it can be so subtle sometimes too. It’s like, Oh my gosh, I thought I figured this out already. And then, and there it is. So, so it’s really, really beautiful because I think it’s affirming and it gives us a lens that we can drop into observation mode of ourselves rather than, Oh, you know, what’s wrong with me.

Lisa Tahir (12m 18s):
Yeah. That judgemental lens of what’s wrong with you. And I’ve been healing, I’ve been in therapy or on this path. And why am I still, you know, those things that are so critical and, and hurt us more than serve and help us,

Christine Okezie (12m 30s):
It’s deep to shape that

Lisa Tahir (12m 33s):
With love and compassion and empathy, like putting yourself in your own shoes with some presence of, of love and compassion and curiosity, like, Hey, okay, how come I’m feeling this way versus why are you feeling this way again,

Christine Okezie (12m 49s):
Precisely precisely. Yes. The, the, the role of compassion and empathy is, is, is the elixir I think for so much of this work, you know, inner work because it’s, you know, this kind of self observation I found is not always, you know, kind of, you know, rainbows and unicorns, it can be quite painful, you know, and, and quite, quite difficult. So, you know, having the, the intention like you do when you work to, you know, have the foundation around compassion is absolutely key, absolutely key. So you go on to talk about, you know, how to heal the core. What does it look like when those core wounds are healed or healing, you know, there some about that.

Christine Okezie (13m 29s):

Lisa Tahir (13m 29s):
You know, and for again, the Kyron and Aries individuals, since we’re using that example, it really has to do with healthy boundaries and really giving yourself some more freedom and leeway oftentimes to say no, rather than yes, because you know, these individuals Kyron in areas, you really want to do amazing things and be a part of groups, friends, and associations, especially with this 11th house manifestation. But sometime it’s about it is about the balance of giving to yourself and taking that time away to recharge, refresh, to do things where you’re receiving to allow yourself to be more comfortable with receiving from others, be it love or gifts or a meal or flowers, you know, or just time, you know, quality time with someone listening to you.

Lisa Tahir (14m 22s):
And so it’s really about learning that balance of giving and receiving and saying to someone con for example, if you’re asked to do something and maybe you want to do it learning to say, Hey, let me get back to you on this. I’m starting to be more conscious of my schedule. Let me, let me see if this works and really allowing yourself not to over-commit because that’s been a pattern of the past to over commit and then get depleted. So it’s really learning to kind of set boundaries with yourself more than anyone that are loving. Like what’s the most loving thing I can do for me.

Christine Okezie (14m 56s):
I love that. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Thank you. Yeah. They’re giving and receiving balance. That’s key. I mean, I think all of us, you know, particularly, you know, and when we’re, you know, busy and everything, we’re always, you know, as, as, as the feminine, as the woman, you know, we’re always trying to, you know, nurture and be of service. And, and sometimes that balance needs a little, a little tweaking

Lisa Tahir (15m 21s):
To really tell yourself that and really play with the boundaries of releasing performance-based love, you know, really being so good at giving and like, you know, people, when they receive from us it’s feels really positive, but we start to define and create an identity around our giving and our generosity. And, you know, at sometimes maybe feeling resentful that others aren’t matching that, and we don’t appear to be resentful, but it’s like this secret thing that then we judge ourselves for like, Oh my God, can I just be generous without wanting something in return? And I think that could clue us into, you know, you might be overextending and maybe you need to ask, Hey, like maybe we can split this bill or just wait to receive an invitation.

Lisa Tahir (16m 6s):
So kind of exploring those experiences.

Christine Okezie (16m 11s):
Oh my God, that’s huge. You know, and around those lines, you mentioned something in the book with this, with this particular pattern of you have to kind of work hard to receive love. Right. You kind of have to prove yourself. And I think that’s a really, you know, important wound to look at, you know, cause again, there’s that proving and earning someone’s love or earning your worth in a relationship, right? Yeah.

Lisa Tahir (16m 36s):
Yeah. And that’s where the affirmations that I offer come into play because it’s really by creating new thoughts about yourself, releasing, like I’m going to release performance-based love. And I choose to replace it with knowing I am valuable just because I’m here and really, you know, writing down, I am enough, I am worthy. My value lies within I own my right to exist. You know, really starting to live into these new beliefs, thoughts that become beliefs. Cause you might not feel a connection to that yet because it could be so unfamiliar, but over time, just considering what would it, how would I show up if I knew I was worthy without having to give so much?

Lisa Tahir (17m 20s):
Like what might that mean that I do or don’t do.

Christine Okezie (17m 23s):
Yes. Yes. What would that look like? Yeah. Hm. Beautiful. Okay. So you mentioned affirmations, which you, you also, you know, make sure to say, it’s not just about, you know, kind of spewing them out. It’s really kind of looking for the, them as an opening to the emotional connection, to this new way of thinking. Right? So affirmations are all about emotions, not just cerebral kind of impossible.

Lisa Tahir (17m 51s):
And that’s such an important piece that you’re bringing up because it is different than, you know, only positive thinking from the brain it’s really dropping into your body and your heart space and sometime an affirmation, it doesn’t resonate. Like it’s hard to go from feeling like you don’t have enough money to I’m a millionaire, you know, there could be total disconnect. So instead I think a more to bridge that is like, if you’ve experienced, you know, not having enough money, like I want to know what it feels like to have enough money. I want to know what abundance feels like, show me, show me where I’m abundance should, you know, like kind of show me, or I want to believe this to be, I want to believe I’m worthy.

Lisa Tahir (18m 33s):
I want to believe I don’t have to overwork to get love. So you can bridge it with the, I want to kind of statement until you start to really feel that in your life. And then you can say, I am worthy.

Christine Okezie (18m 45s):
Beautiful. Thank you. I love that guy bringing that up guidance on that. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, we’re working with our are some deeply grooved, you know, step out. And so it’s really important to kind of meet ourselves in a way that feels real. Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa Tahir (19m 3s):
It doesn’t work. That’s why people, I think get frustrated with these kinds of practices because they’re not, they’re not feeling authentic or true. And so we just throw them out, but it’s like, let’s progressively get there. You know, like I want to feel good enough. I want to feel like there’s enough for me.

Christine Okezie (19m 19s):
Beautiful. Beautiful. What are some other modalities that you would recommend for working with these core wounds?

Lisa Tahir (19m 30s):
Yeah. I really love meditation and there’s a guided meditation that I give in the book and I’m also the narrator in the audio version. And so I do, I guide you through this meditation really centering on your heart space, the seat of compassion and love and inviting you to even breathe through your heart. As you sit, you know, a few moments in silence or with some music to really bring your attention to your own body and just feel and to any tension, just notice, take time to notice yourself and experience yourself.

Christine Okezie (20m 6s):
Wow. Thank you. Yes, meditation and making time for that inner listening or stillness. Right. So important. Yeah.

Lisa Tahir (20m 15s):
Moving meditations, you know, you can walk if you have a lot of people I work with, they have a hard time sitting and I invite them. Why don’t you take a walk without your phone and notice the tree or flowers and just kind of again, be with yourself, notice what am I thinking? And anxiety, even if that brings up anxiety, is that really the other side of excitement you have about something that hasn’t manifested yet, like to even start to look at our emotions from a different lens and perspective. Beautiful. Tell me

Christine Okezie (20m 48s):
More about that. So in terms of the anxiety piece, you mentioned something interesting there.

Lisa Tahir (20m 53s):
Yeah. Anxiety. I think we always associate with something bad. So like anxiety, fear of the future, for example. And actually I was one of the accounts I follow on Instagram sauce, Simone. He does these really funny videos and he spoke about yesterday. What are things? It is really the other side of excitement. And that just really, so I have to credit him because I learned that from him. And I felt like it was like an aha moment for me to really look at this differently because I feel like there’s truth in that we’re, we’re fearful, we’re anxious because we’re really excited. Like we want something to happen that hasn’t happened yet. And so if you start to feel into your desire and excitement, I think the anxiety can really release from your body and there’s new possibilities for you.

Christine Okezie (21m 41s):
Yeah. It’s the other side. Right? So if we don’t know what’s going to happen in the future, this is true. But why do we, we can question whether or not that not knowing means expectation of something bad happening, right. That equivalency is just made up. It’s just a thought. So

Lisa Tahir (21m 57s):
Yeah, it is absolutely crusade. It’s just a thought.

Christine Okezie (22m 1s):
I love that. Okay. So another particular Kyron sign and house is the Kyron and Virgo. Yeah. Yeah. And I’d like to talk about that. Cause the core wounding, there is management of physical health and routines and vulnerability for a lot of folks that I work with.

Lisa Tahir (22m 21s):
Okay, cool. And I love that you brought this up because Kyron himself, since he’s the wounded healer, archetype and Greek mythology, he’s the founding father of botany and pharmacy. And you know, when we go to the doctor’s office, you see the staff of medicine, the two snakes, the staff of Asclepius Kyron gave that to Asclepius and in Greek mythology. So this Kyron and Virgo centered around the management of physical health and its routines is required really loves to be so to speak like, you know, this is like his wheelhouse of when you’re wounded in this area, you feel like, you know, you, you neglect your own self care.

Lisa Tahir (23m 3s):
You’re unable to cope with it. You might even feel broken. Like there is an innate something’s wrong with me. And if this is something you’re not aware of at all, it’s like really in the shadow, it’s really pushed in the background. You could even experience hypochondria, you know, where you feel like you have every disease and disorder. So it’s like a lack of management emotionally and physically around your body and your health, right. That’s that’s the unhealed, Kyron and Virgo. But when you’re healed, you’re able to really follow. You’re able to set and follow healthy routines. You know, you really prioritize your own physical health, just others. Cause you’re really good at helping others, you know?

Lisa Tahir (23m 45s):
Yes. There’s that balance

Christine Okezie (23m 46s):
Again, right? Yeah. Hmm.

Lisa Tahir (23m 48s):
Yeah, totally. This balance. And I have my chapter open because sometimes I feel like I wrote this and part of it was definitely channeled because sometime I read Christina, I’m like, Oh my gosh, where did ?

Christine Okezie (24m 3s):
You know, like, can I just pause there a second? Cause that’s I, that’s the question that arose. And I was reading all this sort of rich material as in the breakdown of each of each of these types, how did these, I’m going to call them psycho emotional constructs or psycho-spiritual constructs? How did they come to you?

Lisa Tahir (24m 20s):
You know, they came to meet the first download so to speak was in meditation research Kieron. And once I started down that path, I CA I suddenly started to see, okay, I’ve wanted to write a book. I think I’ve got it. And yet it took me three and a half years to write the manuscript and have my agent find a publisher. So I had to stay with this for what felt like to me for a really long time, three and a half years consistently researching and writing, and a lot of rejections from other publishers before inner traditions and going through those feelings, like I’m not good enough because some of the rejections were really harsh about my work yet.

Lisa Tahir (25m 2s):
I learned when I took some time and then came back to them. Every rejection had something I could use to make the book, refine it and make it better. And I wanted to combine spirituality with psychology and our ability to take personal responsibility. It’s not your fault, the horrible things, that traumatic things that you might have gone through. It’s not your fault yet. It is our responsibility to heal those parts of ourselves. And I wanted it to feel more of like a joyful choice than a horrible, you know, like hard one, you know, to really give some practical steps that you can start today. Things that I’ve done. And in this three and a half years, I experienced every core wounding of Kyron.

Lisa Tahir (25m 46s):
Like I felt like I really have to feel it, the neglect abandonment cut off from creativity. And I chose to really focus on this. I felt like, like I wanted this to be the best that I could give you all.

Christine Okezie (25m 59s):
Well, thank you three and a half years. And it’s almost, I always say that, you know, the process is the goal. And you know, the process is actually where, where the, where the growth happens, you know, where the expansion and the creativity is, you know, going through. So what, how you ended up, you know, might in retrospect seem very circuitous, but you know, might at the time it felt a bit circuitous, but in retrospect, what a huge expansive process for you to go through all 12 houses of Chiron

Lisa Tahir (26m 30s):
Yeah. And I feel like I grew so much as a person, as a, as a therapist, as just a human being to really learn that love can heal us, that compassion, that gentleness and coaching encouragement, and which is different than people. I think fear, if I really am compassionate with myself, I’m going to be an air quotes, lazy or not get things done. And that’s not compassion. That’s, you know, making excuses, that’s a whole nother set of issues. But when you’re coaching yourself compassionately, it’s like, you’re really talking, you’re holding your own hands. Like you would a child. Like if, if a child is trying to learn to walk, you wouldn’t push them down.

Lisa Tahir (27m 10s):
If they’re stumbling, you offer them a hand, you’d give them that little Walker to help them scoot themselves along. So this is what you’re doing emotionally. You’re kind of like emotionally supporting yourself, like in weightlifting, you’ve a spider you’re emotionally spotting yourself to lift these heavier weights.

Christine Okezie (27m 27s):
Yes, yes. I know weightlifting is a passion of yours.

Lisa Tahir (27m 35s):
The spiritual monster stills, emotional muscles. So when you’re triggered, you’re not going to react. You’re not going to blast the person and then feel ashamed and damage your relationships. You’re going to go through your emotions and respond. You know, you’re going to hold that part of yourself that feels hurt. That even feels angry and respond in a way that builds communication between you and that person rather than destroys it.

Christine Okezie (28m 1s):
Yes. Thank you. It’s, you know, one of the, the areas that always comes up in the, in the work that I do is this, this relief that comes when women are able to give themselves permission, to be kinder to themselves, to be more gentle and understanding, it’s like this huge burden that just comes off when you, you, when you mean I can really kind of be okay with, you know, being right where I am, you know, that kind of thing.

Lisa Tahir (28m 29s):
And to nurture oneself for women, for us to nurture ourselves in the same ways we do for others and really know you’re okay. Right. Where you are. You’re enough.

Christine Okezie (28m 41s):
Thank you precisely. Yeah,

Lisa Tahir (28m 45s):
Though, that just came to mind because I think for our listeners and women listening with this placement, Kyron and Virgo speaks to the workaholic person where, and I feel that I feel like somebody’s listening. This is going to land with them and resonate that you might be a serious workaholic and, you know, really neglect yourself. And even sometime others thinking, you know, when I achieve X, you know, when I achieve Y or Z, well, then I’ll take a break. And as you know, those benchmarks come and you set a new one. So I really encourage you, the workaholic to consider working in a different way, redefining your relationship to your work and your self-esteem because they’re tied together.

Christine Okezie (29m 29s):
Wow. Yeah. Okay. So that’s a big one, you know, because that is really, ultimately, that’s always, I’m too busy. It’s the chronic busy-ness or the addiction to business. Is that like to say, you know, that gets in the way of our own, our own health and our wellbeing.

Lisa Tahir (29m 43s):
It does. And as you know, stress causes major health problems. So the stress caused by workoholism leads to heart issues and all kinds of physical manifestation. So you really want to learn to schedule at least a day off a week for yourself, schedule trips, you know, use your vacation time, use your sick leave. You know, I think a lot of women that I know they don’t use their sick leave, you know, they feel like they have to really show up no matter what. And I encourage you to try to do it differently and take your sick days even as mental health.

Christine Okezie (30m 18s):
Yes. Yes. And that comes from the, the insight that your worth is not tied to your productivity. I’m using air quotes, productive. Vivity right. Yeah. So breaking that belief around that is key. That’s key. Absolutely. Thank you. Oh my gosh. Is there, is there a particular, maybe as you, as you reflect, you know, client or patient, of course, you know, just in general who’s healing journey, you know, through the Kyron and through the exploration of cayenne really kind of touches your heart. Something that you might want to share, or maybe even just deepen the way you practice this,

Lisa Tahir (30m 56s):
You know? Yes. And what’s coming to mind is, is something you and I spoke about briefly before coming live is that it’s been such a delight to hear people say that because of what they’ve been doing professionally, even as a healing practitioner or a podcaster or a writer, or some type of creative that they have been healing, this Kyron vulnerability and wound without even knowing it. And they experience, it’s like, ah, like deep exhale, like I’ve got this, like in a way that maybe they didn’t know before. So it’s just, self-affirming that you’re on your road. Like you really are. And you can take that pressure off that you’re missing something.

Lisa Tahir (31m 37s):
And so that’s been like the most wonderful thing in my clients. And even as I’ve been on podcasts, you know, that, that you’re already healing this and you just need to really release any sense of, of confusion because you’re in flow.

Christine Okezie (31m 53s):
Yes. It provides, you know, that, I’m glad you used the word clarity. So this, for me, as I read through all of the 12, you know, core woundings and, and Kyron science, it was, so it was such a beautiful systematic framework to really understand, like, you know, it was very, very clarifying for me. It was like, okay, then this, and this gives way to this. Oh yeah. And this shows up this way. Right. And I go, Oh, that’s what that patterns about, you know, that kind of thing. And so it’s really, really brilliant. And it’s kind of, I don’t know, I’d love the mystical quality to it if I can say simply because yeah. It’s not, it’s not, it’s not dry and clinical, if I can say, you know, there’s a bias,

Lisa Tahir (32m 39s):
Think about it, Christine. It’s like juicy and rich and you know, like, yeah. So thank you for that.

Christine Okezie (32m 45s):
Yeah. I mean, and so I think for, for folks and what I’d love though, is in the, in, in the better half, first half of the book, you do overlay the, all the clinical theory, you know, and be psych, you know, the psychoanalytical theories and, and, and all the great masters of that, you know, the way that you merge. And as you said earlier, kind of the psychology, the spirituality, you know, this is kind of my, you know, like I’m such a geek when it comes to blending those two things. I love this, you know, but I think it really lends itself to people having a little bit more support, but a little bit more playfulness around this too, which is, Oh yeah, okay. You know, I can look at this and it doesn’t have to be so dark, sometimes shadow work.

Christine Okezie (33m 29s):
You know, if I could use that term can be really heavy and, and, and, you know, kind of trigger during even more resistance around self exploration. That’s okay.

Lisa Tahir (33m 41s):
Well said the resistance around self exploration stemming from fear, and like, this is going to hurt. This is going to, you know, like the heaviness as you described. And it, it doesn’t have to be like that. You can feel your feelings in a way that, like, I don’t know, it can be like relieving that you’re going to feel better truly as a result.

Christine Okezie (34m 4s):
Brilliant. Yeah, exactly, exactly. That’s exactly what, how you lay it out in the book. It is so approachable. So easily practice, like you said, don’t need any, you know, special, like, you know, spiritual, you know, practice or anything. It’s very, very broadened inviting you even say that in the book, right. That you don’t, this is kind of with all due respect to all kinds of traditions and philosophies, right. You, you made this very kind of respectful and inviting in that regard. So I appreciate that.

Lisa Tahir (34m 35s):
Yeah. Yeah. I do invite the reader to apply your own paradigm and belief system. And I’m, you know, honest and saying, I believe in spirituality and a connection to something bigger, but you might not, and that’s totally okay. Apply what you believe it could be found in nature or science that you can be who you are and take what works, leave the rest. It’s just a paradigm and an offering. Cause I want, I really want to help people feel better and happier and like, you know, live their very best life from wherever you are. It doesn’t matter how young, how old, you know, it’s like, you’re right where you need to be.

Christine Okezie (35m 12s):
Wow. Thank you. I say that a lot, you know, take what you take, what resonates and free to leave the rat nest. Yeah. Again, more, more self-empowerment, you know, around that. I love that. I love that. So now on the flip side, what is a common myth, you know, or misunderstanding that you like to dispel, and by the way, I love the term. I’m glad you copyrighted psycho astrology, what a brilliant term, what a brilliant you, thank

Lisa Tahir (35m 38s):
You so much.

Christine Okezie (35m 40s):
Right? What do you want to make sure they understand

Lisa Tahir (35m 44s):
What I’m thinking? And there’s a portion of my book having to do with the perception that healing professionals, therapists that like we’re on this pedestal that we always have our shit together. That’s, that’s the chapter designation. Like don’t you have your shit together. And you know, it’s like, we’re all human beings and yes, I’ve made it my business to have more of my shit together. And I expect that of myself because of what I’ve chosen to do for a living. I feel like it’s a calling and a responsibility that I choose. So I want to be healthy. I want to be modeling that, but there are times when I’m not. And I talk about having a period of my life, you know, going through addiction and recovering from drug addiction and having to really change my own people, places and things, because I didn’t want to just let that go.

Lisa Tahir (36m 32s):
And it was during hurricane Katrina and new Orleans, and it was just, I’ve never experienced, such an overwhelming feeling lost. And so, you know, I turned to two drugs to self-medicate and I thought so is everybody else? It’s no big deal, but you can live like that forever and never be living your best self. So I chose to get help for that and change those patterns and behavior. So I guess the myth is, you know, that whatever you do for a living in the healing professions, especially that we have issues too. And I think that’s what brings us to this field is we really have compassion for what it is to be human and to have done the work of healing and changing ourselves.

Lisa Tahir (37m 14s):
So we’re really in a good place to be a guide and a light for you to find your own path. And so, you know, just to, I had to be really compassionate with myself and sit is so judgmental.

Christine Okezie (37m 27s):
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. That’s huge. Yeah. Cause this, this sort of a whole, you know, we we’ve got it all figured out. Yeah. I may be a few steps ahead of you, which allows me to be a light in your life. Cause that is my, I believe like you at least. So that’s my calling, but I’m a work in progress and, and thankfully I’m work in progress. This is, this is a lifetime of work and I’ve even gotten so far these days to say, you know what, this might not just be a lifetime of work. This is probably lifetimes of work, you know, to really get into the space of, you know, what is this, what is this life all about? What is this, you know?

Lisa Tahir (38m 5s):
Right. Yeah. Yeah. I woke up wondering that, like, thinking that like, Oh my gosh, what is this really about incoming? Yeah, absolutely. I’m with you on this, like wanting to know, wanting to really know.

Christine Okezie (38m 16s):
Yeah. So there’s always a, you know, I have a good friend of mine. Who’s also in the field and we thought about we’re going to, we just keep saying, you know, there’s more, there’s always more to figure out.

Lisa Tahir (38m 26s):
Absolutely. And that’s the beauty of this. There’s always more, and it’s like delightful. It’s here to excite us, not booby trap us. And you know, the, of being tested. I, I feel like we’re given opportunities to see our growth in a positive way versus testing to fail, like, you know, opportunities to show your growth and look how I did this differently today than last month. Like, Oh my gosh, I got triggered and I totally responded differently. Like life wants to delight and surprise you with your growth. Not try to hinder you or, you know, or mess you up.

Christine Okezie (39m 1s):
Brilliant. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So if I could ask, you know, what is the number one thing you want people to take away from your book? It’s a lot of information. So what’s the number one thing thing

Lisa Tahir (39m 13s):
What’s coming to mind with you is I want people to know just how loved you are. Just how, just how important you are, just how valuable and worthy, not based on your performance, the money you make, what you do for a living. If you’re, if you eat meat or not, if you get the vaccine or not, you know, who you voted for truly like the things that were really attacking each other and judging each other for, it’s not about any of that. It’s about like really you waking up and liking as much as you can, the person that you’re in the skin that you’re in the mind that you’re in the body that you’re in. Like, I really want people to have a deeper appreciation of themselves in that way.

Christine Okezie (39m 56s):
So, so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. Oh my gosh. And you know, can I ask you these days? You know, what inspires you? What keeps you inspired

Lisa Tahir (40m 7s):
Actually this Christine, like coming on your show So happy like it, even if I get anxious before, which always happens or like, how do I say this in a fresh and new way? Like the, the way you ask the questions, I’m saying things I’ve never said, so thank you. And like, just really wanting to tune in to like really, I really want people to have my book to change their own life and know that they can. So this is like so motivating and inspiring to be able now to talk about it and connect with people like you, that I never would have met and you are listeners and like to inspire each other.

Christine Okezie (40m 40s):
Yeah. Yeah. I get it. So thank you for sharing that because that’s been, my gift is to meet people like you, you know, in, when I watched the podcast, this is my quarantine baby.

2 (40m 50s):
Oh, by the way, the quarantine wonderful.

Christine Okezie (40m 56s):
So the quarantine, and I think that’s, that’s my way of, you know, staying lit up is surrounding myself with people like yourself. So I appreciate you very much

Lisa Tahir (41m 6s):
As I appreciate you.

Christine Okezie (41m 8s):
So how can our audience connect with you? And do you have anything special coming up that you’d like to share?

Lisa Tahir (41m 15s):
You know, I’d love for, for listeners to connect with me through my website, it’s NOLA and O L a T H E R a P It’s kind of this pseudo name for new Orleans, Los Angeles I live and work as you know, in both places. And to follow me on social media, I’m at NOLA therapy on Facebook and Instagram and YouTube. And I try to post like videos around, you know, fitness and mental wellbeing. I try to keep it real and kind of fun. And you know,

Christine Okezie (41m 50s):
And you have a great podcast too. Thank you. Have a great, she has, she has a great radio show.

Lisa Tahir (41m 56s):
I appreciate that. I love like you being a podcaster. Like I get to connect with people again. I never would have met and have these conversations and synergies that are like, wow. Like expanding in every way and bring me happiness. Yeah.

Christine Okezie (42m 9s):
Yes, yes. Okay. Well, I will include all that in the show notes, for sure.

Lisa Tahir (42m 15s):
I’d love to offer them a session at half off if they mentioned you or your show just to email. Yeah. So I’d love to do that for people interested in diving deeper.

Christine Okezie (42m 24s):
Oh, how generous of you? That is awesome. Thank you so much, Lisa. This has been great. Thank you. Thank you.

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