Connecting To Your Inner Divinity – Ep 041 Interview With Emma Farr Rawlings, PhD

In my own journey, I’ve to come to know the healing that comes from quieting the voice of our ego so we can hear the voice of inner wisdom, our higher self, our soul. The healing comes from having an underlying sense of well being regardless of what’s going on in our circumstances and the power of intentional focus to transform our limiting beliefs. When we’re inspired, having fun, and feeling a sense of wonder we’re conncted to our divine inner being.

Growing up Emma was close friends with a younger child (Brett) in her neighborhood. They had a special connection and often spoke of angels and God. He often told her that he knew Emma from before they were born; he knew her from the “spirit house”. Emma always felt a special connection to children and became passionate about interviewing other children in various cultures to see what they might say if asked “Where do you come from? Why are you here?

This led to her book, The Divine Child: Your Soul’s Inner Voice which invites us to re-discover the joy of our own eternal child and see the wisdom inherent in the voices of children. In doing so, Emma offers a simple yet profound formula for creating a brighter, healthier future for humanity and the planet.

Emma has master’s degrees in clinical psychology and cultural anthropology as well as a PhD in Behavioral Sciences. – She has been a consultant, coach, and trusted advisor for over 35 years in the San Francisco Bay Area, as well as internationally, serving the technology and media/music industries, spiritual leaders and eco-leaders. She retired her Transpersonal Psychotherapy practice of four decades in 2014.

You can learn more about Dr. Rawlings and her book at:

Resources Recommended By Dr. Rawalings:

Healing the Gifted Child, By Alice Miller
Healing the Child Within, By Charles L. Whitfield

Podcast Transcript

0 (1s):
Welcome to the Soul Science Nutrition Podcast, where you’ll discover that when it comes to your health, you are so much more powerful than you’ve been led to believe. And now your host, she’s a holistic nutrition and lifestyle coach, chef author, and Yogi, Christine Okezie.

Christine Okezie (23s):
Hello, and welcome to the Soul Science Nutrition Podcast. I’m Christine Okezie. Thanks so much for listening. So what I found to be missing in most modern day, conventional approaches to health and healing is seeing all that we truly are beyond these physical bodies. Now don’t get me wrong. These bodies are incredibly important, but when they dominate our perception of who we think we are, when we make them the foundation for our happiness and contentment, we’re building our wellbeing on shaky ground. Our bodies, these vessels are organisms that we inhabit for a period of time after all are finite.

Christine Okezie (1m 7s):
Our true nature as pure consciousness as soul beings is infinite. What I’ve come to know is that wellbeing and health, while it’s really an endeavor to become more intimate with this infinite part of ourselves, our true nature, which at the core is compassion, love, and joy. It’s what yogis and sages say. We are truly divine. And when we use our bodies as the vehicle to cultivate this awareness, using any number of mind, body energetic tools, contemplate of practices, let’s say while we heal because the body doesn’t have to work so hard to be healthy and the mind becomes clear and we can see what is genuinely important.

Christine Okezie (2m 3s):
When we can perceive our more subtle, our more substantive selves, you can call it your soul, the love intelligence. That’s always around us. And to be clear, this doesn’t have to be religious. If that’s the contexts that resonates most with you, that’s wonderful. But what I’m talking about is it’s anything really that causes you to have a more elevated experience of your life, of reality. Anything that allows you to see and break through the tendencies and misperception of our subconscious and our unconscious minds and thus connect to that real part of ourselves.

Christine Okezie (2m 49s):
Because when we do that, well, there is a peace, a calm, and this is potent medicine that’s available when we can connect to this inner space. And so that is why we have I’m so excited for today. Special guest. She is a passionate advocate for living from this soul space, from seeing our lives with more all, and wonder by connecting or reconnecting to that voice inside of us, that at one time knew that this world was filled with love, magic and possibility.

Christine Okezie (3m 29s):
She’s the author of this heartwarming book, the divine child, your soul’s inner voice and uplifting awe inspiring book that reminds us that we are all a spark of the divine. She’s Dr. Emma Farr Rawlings. And she shares through her own childhood experiences and interviews with children all over the world. In this book that help us rediscover the joy of our own eternal child. She allows us to see the wisdom inherent in the voices of children and in this beautiful work, she offers a simple yet profound formula for creating a brighter, healthier future for humanity and the planet itself.

Christine Okezie (4m 17s):
Emma has a master’s degree in clinical psychology, a master’s degree in cultural anthropology. She’s a PhD in behavioral sciences. Emma has been a consultant coach and trusted advisor for over 35 years in the San Francisco Bay area, as well as internationally serving the technology media music industries, spiritual leaders, eco leaders, and VIP’s in many fields. She retired her transpersonal psychotherapy practice of four decades in 2014. And I’m so excited to dive deep into this conversation with her on our soul essence. I hope you enjoy this special conversation.

Christine Okezie (4m 58s):
And if you do, please feel free to leave a rating and review. I’d be very grateful. And if you haven’t already hit that subscribe button, please do so so that I can help keep these empowering soul nourishing messages growing. Thank you so much and enjoy the show. Hello, Emma, welcome to the podcast. It’s a pleasure to have you here today.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (5m 19s):
Thank you, Christine. It’s wonderful. Thank you for asking me.

Christine Okezie (5m 23s):
Yeah. And I would just want to love to dive in. I just finished reading your amazing book, the divine child, but I read in your biography and maybe if this is a good place to start, I read in one of your biographies that you had, you were young, you were 17 and you spent a year living in the mountains in isolation and Baja, California. Did that unique experience, did that play a role in shaping you and what you’re doing now in some way?

Dr. Emma Rawlings (5m 50s):
Oh, it was amazing actually part of what? Well, I, I felt I met her on a climbing, like a climbing and I was in college at the time and I started college very early. And so, and at that point I, I was an anthropology already. Okay. And so I had met her, I had kind of fallen in love with her, and then I got the school. I went to this college. It was very different. It was not like your regular, I could struck here what I wanted to do. And it was a little bit more creative given my dyslexia that I didn’t know I had it.

Christine Okezie (6m 26s):
Yes, yes.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (6m 28s):
So I went to collect her story, actually. I see. So that was kind of the reason of going. And I kind of had that format, even though I didn’t speak Spanish, then I learned to speak Spanish

Christine Okezie (6m 39s):

Dr. Emma Rawlings (6m 40s):
So it kind of unfolded, But it was amazing. I mean, even just living on dirt floors and I mean, going to get our water outside, no electricity, I mean just really primitive.

Christine Okezie (6m 53s):
Wow. Yeah. Your, your, your natural curiosity about the human experiences. It started very early.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (7m 2s):
I just kind of told my, you know, my mom, I was leaving and she let me go, you know, she was great. I think about it now. I mean, you know, just pack up and drive South to Baja. Yeah.

Christine Okezie (7m 14s):
Oh my gosh. Wow. Yeah. So how did your path evolve from clinical psychology and then work in the behavioral health side of things to do what you do now? Like what, what’s the journey?

Dr. Emma Rawlings (7m 28s):
Yeah. Well, so it actually did start an anthropology. It didn’t, it started through asking questions. So I’ve been doing this, the whole question. Yes. Yes. And even before officially the whole, well, I did, you know, Brett, the young child when I was very young and that led me to want to ask older people, you know, same questions about their soul. Why are they here? Their life’s mission? So I ended up doing that. Some of, I think that was either after, before Lydia in San Pedro, California with some fishermen. So I’d go out. I would go out on boats with fishermen and ask them questions. So I had that curiosity from a lot, yeah.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (8m 9s):
From a very, a young age. And it was when I was actually staying with Lydia, it just became really clear. I had a dream and in a dream, it was just you’re, you’re meant to work on, on a more healing level rather than just documenting questions and answers. And that I could also see that the CA just the listening and asking questions to adults, I could feel the healing that was going on for people. So, yeah. So I basically moved to San Francisco and started working and I worked with psychotic young psychotic people. That was my first job job job.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (8m 52s):
Yeah. That was like when I was like 19. Oh my gosh. I, so I’ve had a really, and we didn’t medicate, you know, it was a union style setting and we looked at it as a spiritual as if they were going through and a spiritual emergency really crisis. And then we worked on their creativity. So, and then I worked with autistic children. It’s kind of just grew organic, you know, and then I actually, from there went back to study and clinical psychology. Okay. After I’d already been working in crewing all these hours and doing all that. So I just loved it.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (9m 32s):
I just followed, you know, they say it’s a mix of following your passion, which it definitely, I was following my passion. It also was just my intuition guiding me, which I really trusted.

Christine Okezie (9m 43s):
Hm. Yeah. And well, going into that, then what was your inspiration then for doing this, you know, exploring what universal knowing is about exploring the nature of the soul, exploring our intuitive capacity, you know, what, what grabbed you about that? Like why were you always wanting to do that?

Dr. Emma Rawlings (10m 1s):
I was born like that and my little neighbor, you know, if you read my book

Christine Okezie (10m 6s):
Yeah. Please share, please share.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (10m 9s):
He pretty much having that conversation in a very, he was like, you know, four or three when he started to talk and I was eight years older and he, I think he just knew I was open to intuitively spiritually because he just talked to me. I mean, he, he literally just opened up and talked to me all the time. We were very, very close and that just always stayed with me. Hmm. It was just a, a huge reference point in my life. And I was born really connected with nature. I really connected with the nature when my mom would put me out, you know, in the, whatever, out in the grass, I would like, you know, she probably thought I was spacing out.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (10m 53s):
I don’t know what she thought about me at the time, but I, I was into, you know, nature and lady bugs and the sky and I just was always like that. Yeah.

Christine Okezie (11m 3s):
Wow. Did you grow up in a particularly spiritual environment or that cultivated this awareness? Yeah. Did you, did you grow up?

Dr. Emma Rawlings (11m 11s):
Well, my mom is very accepting of all religions and she’s very unconditional loving. I can’t say, you know, I was raised, you know, I would go to Methodist church. That’s kind of what, you know, but she wasn’t really that she was really more, she was open to everything. She, she was, she was definitely a spiritual, she had me through the gnosis in the fifties. Okay. Yeah. So that gives you, that gives you patience. She’s just kind of a, a wide open spirit. She was open to everything.

Christine Okezie (11m 48s):
Right. So from the very beginning she kind of nurtured that in you.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (11m 53s):
Definitely. Definitely. She just kind of, I wouldn’t say I was wild, but she would just nurture it and let me be who I was and really ideal really. I mean, she was a great role model for me to be a mother actually.

Christine Okezie (12m 6s):
Yeah. And, and I guess to follow again, what resonates you and how we work with children right. In terms of that openness and, and validation. Yeah. So tell me more about, you know, the inspiration then to write this book and share these incredible stories of these children. That seems to be this there’s a universality to it, which is, you know, really remarkable.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (12m 31s):
Yeah. So I was always curious with Brett, but that experience, if interviewing, I kind of knew on an intuitive level that where I thought that children would have this nature, this innate knowing basically it was kind of what I call it or it wisdom. And it wouldn’t, it doesn’t matter, you know, what culture or class or money or anything, just children have a pure heart and a pure sense of, of, of knowing. And I just really, my desire was to demonstrate that, and it went through this cycles of, you know, sometimes I’d have money to go traveling. Sometimes I wouldn’t have money to go traveling different countries.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (13m 13s):
Then a whole bunch of my interviews, I was doing research over at UC Berkeley and at the library and they got all stolen out of my car. Yes. It’s been this, you know, and, and intuitively because of that. And then I just kind of paused on it and then I found some transcripts I had, so I just never wanted to give up on it. And then it was just, it was time. I, it was maybe three years ago, I actually hurt my shoulder and I was kind of like in bed and it was just like time to ride it just time to ride it. And so, yeah. And so I did so, Oh my gosh.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (13m 54s):
Many years, many years

Christine Okezie (13m 57s):
Really organic in that regard, a very organic project. Yeah. Yeah. So why are, why are you so passionate then I would ask, you know, why is it important that we find more ways to be more of our inner child? See more wonder in the world? Yeah,

Dr. Emma Rawlings (14m 16s):
Well, it’s really, I think just by allowing wonder in ourselves at any age, and if we can encourage it with children, I really feel in my heart, we would have a different world rather than trying to program them or have them be strictly academic. It, I just, they open up, they blossom with just this unconditional love really, and listening to them. And so I think if, if we can treat children like that, then it feels like children and humanity would just grow, or that would be my, into a, into a healthy, you know, humankind instead of the, all this trauma and all, you know, crime and all kinds of stuff.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (15m 2s):
I just think we would have a different world to me. It’s just kind of common sense.

Christine Okezie (15m 9s):
And, and so w and the, and I’m guessing that it’s the, it’s the opposite of what’s sort of the mainstream model of how we work with children or see children are treated.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (15m 20s):
Oh, yeah. I mean, I know more and more, I mean, cause I’m older now. I think there is more mindfulness. There is more teaching, you know, letting children be more of who they are. But I think if it could just go massively, I think we could have a different humanity. So that really is the, you know, there’s just so much divide and everything. I mean, we see it in politics. We see it every place. And rather than having a divide, if we could focus on how we’re similar and loving each other, I just think it would be, you know, a better world. It’s very simple.

Christine Okezie (15m 58s):
Yeah, no, I hear ya. And I think the reason why this really resonates with me is that whether you come through the lens of, you know, more, more, more Western, okay. Call it emotional intelligence or call it a spiritual enlightenment, you know, the two intersect, I guess what I’m hearing is that when it comes to being healthier and happier, there’s some wisdom in, in going to trying to contact a part of ourselves, right. Maybe that’s been quieted or that’s kind of been lost or, or ignored or, yeah.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (16m 34s):
We’re just not given any attention at all. Like, you know, some children just never know to pay attention to their quiet self or their self that’s close to nature or creative self. However you want to look at it. Just so many children are so dah, dah, dah, stay on focus, stay on track, stay on. Or, I mean, that’s, that’s in a population where there’s money to keep children on track. That’s right. You know, but if you’re in a different economic, then children, you know, they don’t get the attention there because there’s just no consciousness to get the attention there to give it to them.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (17m 17s):
So yeah.

Christine Okezie (17m 17s):
What did you want people to take away from this book?

Dr. Emma Rawlings (17m 23s):
Hmm. My experience or feedback I get is that they open up to their inner child as they read it, or even just really subtly, very subtly. So two, two things. I really want them to return to that place and it might just be very lightly. They go, Oh right. I, I had that or, wow. I had a big feeling of that. I mean just a subtle remembrance of that. And then if they can also teachers and, and parents can then honor that in their children, that would just be paying attention, listening, nurturing.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (18m 7s):
I really love that part of your energetic nourishment is right. Isn’t that the name of it? I love that because it’s just, if you can, in a way, give that to children, energetic nourishment. I mean, that’s kind of it right there. When I saw that, I was like, Whoa, you’re on this. We’re all on the same.

Christine Okezie (18m 27s):
We’re on the same page. We are we under. Who inspires you when it comes to working in this space of, you know, connecting with our true self, our deeper knowing.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (18m 39s):
Yeah. Well, you know, there’s a famous Alice Miller book, you know, what is that? The gifted healing,

Christine Okezie (18m 47s):
Healing the Gifted Child. Yeah.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (18m 48s):
I mean, that’s a really good start off point, even though it’s kind of really old, there’s so many people right now that are actually doing it. Gosh. And then you have the Whitaker, I think Healing the Child Within; his books. They’re just, yeah.

Christine Okezie (19m 8s):
You have so many wonderful quotes sprinkled throughout the book. You know that again, you know, kind of a beautiful lens. I mean, everything from Rumi to Bruce Lipton, which was so fascinating to me. Can you, can you tell me a little bit more about like what, how that’s your, how you pulled from that wisdom or that, that realm.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (19m 29s):
Yeah. And I was actually going to bring Bruce, Bruce Lipton. I don’t know him personally, but I love his work. Oh yeah. Yeah. And so for me, it’s a weaving of everything. So it’s a weaving of poets. It’s a weeding of scientists. It’s a weaving of, you know, consciousness, people, doctors, science. So those are the, that’s just the way I learn and gravitate. So I just kind of put the book together and in a way that is just kind of who I am, you know, those are just some of my favorite, favorite quotes, so right.

Christine Okezie (20m 5s):
Yeah. I think it is it’s that exploratory energy or that exploratory, you know, part of ourselves that you, you really tap into in the book. I love that. I love that.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (20m 15s):
Yeah. And, and people and questioning and being able to do a 360 rather than be so narrow-minded, you know, I try to keep my mind open to reading your material. And so I hope that people can just kind of, as they’re reading it, just, that kind of wakes up in them a little bit. That’s kind of, you know, yeah,

Christine Okezie (20m 38s):
Yeah. I think it’s, it’s really beautiful. I mean, and the way that you connect kind of, I don’t know, world peace or, or the health of our planet and climate change and issues along again, just healthier and happier ways to be the way that you connect this inherent wisdom in children to creating a better world. Right. It’s I think really valuable to see those connections between how we can change our outer world by working on our inner selves.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (21m 10s):
Oh yes. That’s very important. Matter of fact, I think that’s the only way it will happen is we need to work on ourselves. We need to clean up all of our clutter or our wounds or hurts, you know, and all the, and encourage all the wonderful, positive qualities we have also, you know, I just feel like adults and children are not given enough chance to do that. Exactly.

Christine Okezie (21m 36s):
It’s just, yeah.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (21m 37s):
And if we as adults or we as children or help children do that, it just feels like this inner connection that you’re talking about, then we will manifest it a healthier planet because we’re healthier. It, you know, it’s just that simple.

Christine Okezie (21m 54s):
What, what are your favorite practices or tools for you, you know, that you recommend that you employ in for your own self care that kind of help you stay connected to that inner knowing to the voice of your soul?

Dr. Emma Rawlings (22m 8s):
Yeah. Yeah. I do a lot of breathing and I’ll do a meditation. I also pray every day and I listen listening is another, like to my intuition or to the higher spirit or to God or whatever you want to call it. And just being quiet walking. I have very, very simple, very simple. I don’t know if they’re texting they’re, you know, they’re just practices really that I’ve kind of over the years, you know, if I get kind of upset emotionally, I, I have some in the book where it’s just really calming, you know, I have feelings, I’m not my feelings, I am I, really simple ways to just recenter yourself.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (22m 57s):
I just meditate. I have some Buddhist meditation in there. I have some, yeah,

Christine Okezie (23m 2s):
What’s the connection for you. If you can explain, you know, through your lens, do you think the connection between a stillness practice, let’s just use that as the general, you know, apparatus and being able to connect to our inner knowing our inner child.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (23m 19s):
Yeah. I think they go hand in hand really to just pause and breathe, reconnect to ourself. I mean, for me, my breath, I can’t speak for other people, but breath really connects me to my stillness, to my quiet place of reflection where I can be more clear.

Christine Okezie (23m 41s):
Hmm. Yeah. I’d have to say the same thing. It, it kind of really is about, but it’s, it’s, you could argue that it’s very radical to do that these days, especially now. I mean, you know, who just to slow down to pause, take your awareness inside to, you know, it is kind of right.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (23m 60s):
You know, to, to go, go, go. But I think, you know, because things are kind of crazy and cause we’ve kind of have a forced lockdown. I think hopefully people are going more inside. I don’t, I don’t know that for a fact, but I’m hoping people are finding time to pause and go inside when, when they’re not stressed out, it’s very stressful for people or it has been in this last year, so yeah,

Christine Okezie (24m 27s):
Yeah, yeah. There’s, there’s certainly, you know, one perspective I have is it’s, it’s really a grand invitation actually to shift that awareness. And, and so that’s why I think your, your work is, is really very appropriate or really useful because it’s, it’s, it’s almost a very soothing and playful way to say, you know, why don’t you just, you know, we could, might, we might be able to shift our attention and our entry somewhere else. Yeah,

Dr. Emma Rawlings (24m 54s):
Yeah, yeah. And just, and it is really simple and not to make it this big method or I don’t, I mean, yes. I don’t even think I need to teach it. I think, I don’t know. I mean, that’s a good question. I would love to ask you actually reading it. I’m curious. Does it connect you? And you’d just be honest, but I don’t. Yeah.

Christine Okezie (25m 16s):
Yeah. I, you know, I think anytime that we can remember our child self, you know, and, and let’s, you know, to be clear, it’s, it’s the divine child, cause I know you make that, we’re making that distinction for this purpose, not the wounded child, but the divine child. So that innocence, that pure kind of love, you know, and everybody can picture themselves as a little baby email. And I think for me it resonated because there’s something about, I think that’s why people, like every time you see a baby, you’re like, Oh my goodness, because we just know intuitively they’re pure.

Christine Okezie (25m 57s):
They’re just so, you know, innately good they’re they’re they’re unspoiled. So that would be the opposite perception that so many times we have to deal with our own self narrative. Right. Which is we’re so inherently flawed and we’re in a completely, self-deprecating all this stuff. So that reading these accounts and having just the way that your book is put together, frankly, is, is very soothing, you know, in and of itself, it was just a lovely re I read it in one sitting to be honest with you. Cause you just keep going. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (26m 33s):
I’m glad it’s soothing. So, so it, it does kind of connect you just a little bit to your inner child, just, yeah. I mean, I’ve heard that, but I just want to make, you know, it’s good to know that does, but I feel like I need to teach it or, you know, people have said, do you want it? And I don’t think there’s anything I want to teach. I think if people just read it, they’ll get it.

Christine Okezie (26m 56s):
Yeah. So, so to, to, to play a little, you know, devil’s advocate, what is a common myth or what’s a common misunderstanding then about the work that you do, the work that you’re passionate about, you know, that you, that you spend some time kind of explaining or debunking? Well, I’m just curious. Cause the premises children, right. Have young children have more psychic awareness, more, you know, more awareness of their divinity, if you want to say that. Right. So is there ever a time where I don’t know, how would you explain that to somebody who’s maybe not versed in that?

Dr. Emma Rawlings (27m 33s):
Well, well, you kind of said it actually that children are just born pure and in that state. And I think in that state, if children are encouraged to stay there and not kind of come out of it, they do their lens, their perception in the world allows them to what, whether we call it psychic or we call it whatever we call it. They seem more, I mean, I think in my, in the book, you know, I saw colors, but I think children see colors. I don’t, I don’t think it’s so rare, honestly. Yeah.

Christine Okezie (28m 5s):
That is so interesting. And

Dr. Emma Rawlings (28m 7s):
I think just because children are more open and wide open, so, you know yeah. You can, I guess you can get people like will pro you’re talking about like, well, prove it to me kind of a thing. Or

Christine Okezie (28m 17s):
’cause, you know, th th th this distinction I think is, is useful when you brought it up was, you know, what is intuition? Right. Intuition becomes, you know, Oh, is it like magic? You know, and what is, we’re really talking about? Intuition is we’re just talking about deeper level of awareness.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (28m 33s):
Yes. Yes. That’s all it is. And for me, it’s getting quiet and it’s an a for children, I think it’s just getting quiet. And then there, so usually right there, it’s just a natural, it’s like, they’re not in, not intuitive because they are intuitive because they’re in that state, in that pure state. So for me, I, I need to, you know, get quiet to really discern if it is my intuition talking. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. So just turn, that is a big piece of it for intuition. I mean, yeah.

Christine Okezie (29m 5s):
Yeah. And, and then to your point, that’s why I think it’s, it’s useful to say this is a really beautiful path for, to create a healthier, more peaceful way to live, because if we’re more all operating from that intuitive, natural, intuitive capacity, well, you know, we’re a little bit more having more, you know, relaxed experience of life.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (29m 28s):
Right? Exactly. Yeah. Not so in reaction, you know, reactionary and yeah. We’re paused a little bit and yeah. Hopefully a little calmer in our, in our reactions to it.

Christine Okezie (29m 39s):
Okay. This is what we’re hoping. We can only hope. Right. Maybe

Dr. Emma Rawlings (29m 43s):
A little more fun too, not just, you know,

Christine Okezie (29m 45s):
Well, that’s the other thing, I think that’s the other thing about, you know, using our, the framework of, of children and seeing our inner child is, is playfulness. Playfulness goes a long way, you know?

Dr. Emma Rawlings (29m 60s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I agree. And spontaneity, all of it. It all goes, you know, rather than in our brains all the time, thinking, thinking, thinking, so. Yeah.

Christine Okezie (30m 12s):
Yeah. And so to pick up on that in our brains all the time, right. Isn’t, that’s the other, I think, wisdom in this book or the invitation really, which is to get out of that, thinking, thinking, thinking place and cause that’s not where kids are, kids are in the present moment.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (30m 33s):
Exactly. Yeah. They’re just in their bodies, in the present moment, everything they’re connected to earth, they’re, you know, it’s just all a natural state and we tend to, and I think education has a lot, it brings us more academic. It brings us more on our brains. And then we forget to just connect to our hearts and our bodies and our breath and our belly and, and all of that kind of, for me, returns me, you know, more back to childhood to that pure Stace. Yeah.

Christine Okezie (30m 59s):
Yes. Yeah. It’s, it’s really, a lot of the work that I do is, is based on the health benefits of getting out of your busy thinking mind and dropping into the felt sense of the body, which is, you know, that present awareness for this body that’s right here.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (31m 14s):
Exactly. Yeah. In the present moment. Yeah. And I do talk about that in the book about the key is being in the present present moment.

Christine Okezie (31m 23s):
Yeah. No, I love the stories that you share you when you were a little kid out in the garden, you would just, you know, you were, you were in bliss. You’re just let me sit here in the grass. And, and, and if you think back to children, you know, they’re never worrying about the future. They’re not re ruminating about something that happened yesterday, you know?

Dr. Emma Rawlings (31m 42s):
No, they’re just plain or exploring and yeah. And I, I try to spend when I can, when the weather is going to try to spend quite a bit of time in nature and I still space out just the way I spaced out when I was a kid, you know, just, it’s so beautiful. It’s just absolutely so beautiful to get that.

Christine Okezie (31m 59s):
I think that, that in of itself, I found in, in all kinds of traditions and healing, traditions is nature. Nature, heals, nature brings you back, right?

Dr. Emma Rawlings (32m 8s):
Yes, yes. And then, and then the goal is, I mean, there’s my brand that comes in, but if we are more connected to ourselves in nature, then we will be kind to nature. Then we will treat nature. Then we’re not disconnected from nature. It’s like, we are, we’re one with nature.

Christine Okezie (32m 23s):
What are your passions? What are you passionate like right now? Like what are you most curious about having an impact in

Dr. Emma Rawlings (32m 29s):
It’s still, for me is treating nature, climate change, just treating nature, better, treating humanity, being kinder. And there’s just so many, you know, so many children that are, are not in good and that are in harm’s way. Let’s just put it that. So I don’t know where actually that’s just something I’ve been exploring. I don’t know how I’m going to impact that, but that’s my goal. You’re curious. Yeah. Yeah.

Christine Okezie (33m 1s):
Definite connection between your, your passion. Yeah.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (33m 4s):
Yeah. And I really think if we do this with children, we will just grow out of that need of unkindness or being criminal or acting out of our shadows. However you want to view it would just, we would be more kind to each other.

Christine Okezie (33m 24s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, it’s just, it’s a real, it’s asking us to call upon, you know, something that’s already inside us, I guess is what you’re saying. Yeah.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (33m 34s):
They’re qualities that we have our love that we have. I mean, treating everyone really as our neighbor, as our, as our friend, as our family, then we would just, I know that sounds really idealistic, but I just feel like if we treated every child like that, we would just grow, we would evolve.

Christine Okezie (33m 54s):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, they say that they say, you know, the, the measure of a, of a society is you look at how they treat their women and children. Exactly. Right. It’s right there. It’s right there. Yeah. Yeah. Can you tell me about someone in your travels and because you’re, you’ve worked with on many different projects and certainly in your practice, tell me, does anybody come to mind a story that you’d like to share someone that really touched your heart changed? So you somehow yeah.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (34m 25s):
Well, I think I, in my book, I talk about Andy, Andy in Switzerland. Yeah. He really, because they prepared me to basically not, you know, not take his interview so serious and he, he, he wasn’t smart and he wouldn’t give me a good interview and all this stuff. And I could tell the minute I sat down with him, he was just like, amazing. Like he was sparkling, his eyes were alive. And I was like, wow, this guy is like, yeah. And he gives us amazing interview. And so then we came back the next day and interviewed him some more. And, and so through the process, the interview, you know, the translator and the interview interviewer was so touched by this and this was in Zurich and she was so touched by it.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (35m 16s):
She stayed in touch with this, with this school head principal. And it turned out that then this person shared his interview with the head of the school. I never, I don’t remember really meeting that person. I met his teacher. That’s how it worked and who told me, you know, don’t expect anything, all that kind of stuff. And, and kind of, and he, you know, he’s, his parents are construction and whatever, they just put him down basically. But after they listened to the interview and his whole philosophy and all his inner wisdom, they started treating him differently. And his grades went from DS.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (35m 57s):
And I heard about this over, you know, like six months later, a year later, something like that, they Rose like he Rose to the occasion you differently, you know? And unfortunately I don’t have, is I would love to look him up. Oh,

Christine Okezie (36m 13s):
That would be a great

Dr. Emma Rawlings (36m 18s):
Trait. Oh, I’d love that. But he really, from what I heard, he really transformed. And, and, and it really, that’s just a little micro, you know, kind of into his world. But I think if you just do that, if you see people where they are and you honor the best, they rise to the occasion. Yes. And he did. And so that just, and there’s many more, but he’s always the one that comes to mind, you know, he kind of went from D’s to, A’s not that it matters, but that much, but I know then he was a happier, I don’t know what he’s done in as an adult. I would love to know.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (36m 58s):

Christine Okezie (36m 58s):
It’s a, it’s an incredible, powerful Testament to, you know, seeing how, you know, how people are treated based on certain assumptions of who they are, kind of locks them into a box, you know, especially at that level of development. Okay.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (37m 16s):
Yeah. And I was thinking, gosh, it was such a fluke that I was there that, you know, I did that interview because it was just a random thing, you know, how I got him and these kids out of the class. And it was just a random thing. And I was thinking, well, if all kids could have something like that, because it changed his life, you know, someone, and honestly, all I was doing was listening to him and kind of asking some, you know, questions and he could kind of open up and blossom. So yeah,

Christine Okezie (37m 50s):
It’s simple. It’s powerful. It’s powerful. I’m going to ask you, speaking of those interviews, I’m going to ask you the question that you, that you lovingly ask to each of the children in your book, which is if you had a magic wand, how would you make the world a happier place, a happier place. Happier, healthier. Yeah.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (38m 10s):
Yeah. So I definitely would take it to all parents, caregivers, teachers, and I would, you know, I would have magic dust, you know, go into, go into all of them. And they would know how to parent in a loving kind or they know how to teach. And all the children out there would be instantly healed of any trauma or, or just allowed to be in their natural state. And then they would, and then the whole planet would transform into this wonderful, accepting, loving place, taking care of planet earth and each other.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (38m 57s):

Christine Okezie (38m 57s):
Yes. Oh, okay. Well I’ll, I’ll hold that vision. It’s beautiful. That’s beautiful. Yeah. And what would you say to, let’s say, let’s say, you know, people like, you know, I mean, I still have teenagers at home, but let’s say you’re talking to, you know, like clients, I work with tend to be empty nesters. Right, right, right. Let’s say that we have older adults, you know, who’s who have grown children, what guidance would be useful for them to know just for their own self.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (39m 30s):
Yeah. It’s the same thing, which is just slowing down, breathing, reconnecting. I mean, I would have them read my books. I think it just kind of teaches naturally how to reconnect. Yeah. Walk in nature, slow down, write some poetry, find a passion, volunteer. Give, I mean, that’s the other thing is really service and giving, especially when you’re whatever empty nest or whatever we want to call it. Being of service, I think is very healing. Yeah.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (40m 10s):
I’m all about that.

Christine Okezie (40m 11s):
I know you are. Yes. That’s true. No, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s very healing. And again, to your point where, you know, that feeling, that interconnection, that we all need to be more as much as we can these days, but yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, is there anything that Emma, that I maybe forgot to ask or didn’t know enough to ask you? Oh, you’ve got some great questions. Questions were fun. Thank you. And so where can folks connect with you and maybe learn about some projects that are up and coming?

Dr. Emma Rawlings (40m 45s):
My site is the Divine, and basically you can contact me through there. Beautiful. Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Christine Okezie (40m 52s):
Okay. I was, but thank you for all the work you do and the gift of your book to the world.

Dr. Emma Rawlings (40m 56s):
Oh. And thank you for your work. It’s it’s wonderful. Thank you so much.

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